interview carried out by the MAM São Paulo Communications team with the curators of the 38th Panorama of Brazilian Art: A thousand degrees about the list of artists in the exhibition.
MAM Communication: How did the artist selection process go?
Curated by 38th Panorama: Although long, the selection process was not very complicated, probably due to our affinities and the collective understanding we have about the project. When the exhibition opens in October, two years will have passed from the embryonic idea and the first conversations to the final project. Part of the list is made up of artists or collectives that we had worked with before or were interested in developing a project together. Several others are the result of research specifically focused on 1000°. In the end, they are artists that we think about, but also feel and intuit, who carry a certain energy that has everything to do with the fundamentals and vision of the project. They are artists whose practices represent and embody the sense of urgency that we want to address.
A less conceptual criterion was the decision to focus on living, active artists, privileging people who did not participate in the São Paulo Biennale or were not in previous editions of Panorama.
CM: How does this group of artists outline what the current “Panorama of Brazilian Art” is?
CP: Just like other curators that came before us, we know that drawing a “Panorama of Brazilian art” is an impossible task from the outset. It would be very presumptuous to imagine that an exhibition of contemporary art, especially given the limits of time, space, resources, etc. and the goals of the project itself (concept, themes, etc.), it could handle the size of a continental country, with deep social and cultural complexities, like Brazil. Our curatorial project took this into consideration and we accepted the fact that our perspectives would never be able to cover the multiplicity of artistic practices emerging in the country at this time.
With this in mind, we sought to compose a list of artists that was as plural and intersectional as possible. It was an exercise that sought to constantly expand perspectives. The project will be a provisional reading of what we understand as a portrait of a cultural panorama and the Brazilian artistic scene in light of the concepts we chose to base the project. And of course, knowing that any choices of this type always imply countless absences, and that there are many other possible paths and approaches to pursue this.
That said, amid all this plurality, it will be possible to find a shared energy, some common directions and certain zones of interest: there are several artists working with raw organic matter and telluric elements; that relate directly or indirectly to the spiritual dimension and esoteric practices; there is the presence of the body and the erotic in a direct relationship with urban flows and risks; and also an expanded ecological vision that understands the interconnectivity of everything, and goes far beyond false dichotomies such as nature and culture, natural and artificial, organic and technological.
CM: The curatorial approach indicates a desire to work with artists from different generations, media, and backgrounds. Could you elaborate on why this is so important to the project?
CP: The desire to propose a dialogue that is as broad and diverse as possible is at the genesis of the project. Our list is made up of artists from all regions and 16 states in Brazil, there is a significant number of people born in the 40s, and then there are several other generations, until we reach others born in the late 1990s and even 2000. The same can be said about the desire to work with different contexts, research and practices. And, naturally, with different languages and ways of thinking and making art. The idea of a certain urgency, of a maximum temperature, of extreme situations and of transformation as an inescapable destiny then functions as a common basis, on which we would like to experiment from many perspectives.
CM: And in relation to artistic techniques and processes, how does this diversity manifest itself, from clay to new technologies?
CP: The diversity of media and languages is a final reflection of this plurality that guided the formulation of the project. In this sense, we will have artists who work with organic materials and traditional media, some with spontaneous practices linked to traditional knowledge and others more linked to academic training, even artists who are on the fringes of experimentation with new media, technologies that are unconventional to the artistic circuit. , digital resources and images, industrial equipment and artificial materials.
The curatorial project respects and calls for a warm dialogue — in a non-condescending way — the centuries-old matrices of thought and ways of doing things while bringing experiments with new technologies, urban scenarios and elaborations of futures. The idea is to establish a certain energetic cohesion through the encounter between differences, flexing rigid notions about space and time, and experimenting with how things can connect and coexist in non-linear ways. We are interested in reflecting on whether — and how — artists from such disparate contexts, with such different practices, can approach the same energetic vibration. And not to have a totalizing and overwhelming vision of things, on the contrary: to understand equality in difference, and the many, and always renewed, ways of elaborating reality, exercising imagination, making art, living together, etc.
CM: Dona Romana is better known as a spiritual leader than as an artist. How do you understand this, and what is the importance of her figure in this Panorama?
CP: The spiritual dimension, not only in its religious sense but also as a way of understanding the relationships between the different beings that inhabit our world, is one of the fundamental axes of the project, and we are interested in reflecting on the intertwining between esoteric practices and artistic creation. There are artists who deal with this in a more indirect way, in whom we see this dimension even if in a veiled manner, and others who are in fact priests or perform a properly spiritual function.
Dona Romana de Natividade, or Mãe Romana as she is also known, does not see herself as an artist. She is a person who received a spiritual mission and whose practice involves creations in sculpture, drawing, and painting. It is natural that there is an aesthetic interest in the quality of her work, which not only carries a profound vital charge given its mystical and religious nature, but also has great formal and visual power. However, her works cannot even leave the place where they are, due to their spiritual anchoring. Even so, we decided to insist on her participation, even if through visual or written documentation. She has been a central figure in the development of the project, so her participation is a tribute and a way to bring the unique strength of her creation as the foundation of the exhibition.
CM: Besides Dona Romana, we also have other names that carry a certain aura of "master," such as Mestre Zimar, Maria Lira Marques, José Adário dos Santos, and Mestre Nado. Could you talk a little about their presence in this group?
CP: These are figures of great stature, with profound works, who have dedicated themselves to their art for many decades. Naturally, they are people who guide our thinking and formed the basis for the formulation of the project. These artists are indeed pillars of strength, underpinning the project through the vital charge of their works and the aura that surrounds them. At the same time, their presence in a Panorama is an opportunity to create complex dialogues with younger people and very different practices, which naturally reaffirms the importance of their works, since alongside emerging practices their works shine with freshness and prove to be irrefutably current. There is also a process that interests us, which is to challenge categories of art that fix these artists to a single point. Many of them end up on the edge of what was once conventionally called 'popular art', which is also a fiction and a nomenclature that does not interest us and which we reject. It is important for us to be attentive to differences, and we are interested in combating atavistic interpretations so that each artistic work has its own field of force within the same magnetism, without necessarily being positioned in a specific category due to racial and class markers.
CM: Artist Gê Viana participated in the 36th Panorama and now returns in a collaborative project with Thiago Martins de Melo and Território/Povo/Comunidade Akroá Gamella. Tell us a little about the difference between the works she exhibited in 2019 and the work that will be done now, and why bring her back to Panorama.
CP: In this case, we consider the Akroá Gamella territory or community, located in the lowlands of Maranhão, as the participating entity. The community's participation, under the name "Rop Cateh – Painted Soul in the Enchanted Land of the Akroá Gamella," will feature collaborations with Gê Viana and Thiago Martins de Melo, artists who have previously participated in another Panorama and the São Paulo Biennial, respectively. These artists connect strongly with the curatorial vision and have prior experiences with the Akroá Gamella community. In 2019, Gê focused his work on the history of the Capelobo, a Maranhão entity that is half human, half animal, and created images based on self-portraits that suggest inverting a logic of domination. For this edition we are building, we don't yet know what it will be like, but the idea is that it will bring fundamentals from his practice, which involves archival research and relational practices. Understanding that the territory has a documentary memory based on records, whether maps, writings, or photographic images, made by non-indigenous people, and which often do not correspond to the history reflected by the community itself in its oral and gestural recovery. and also documentary, created with its own sciences and guidelines. At this point, both Gê and Thiago can contribute to the presentation of the Gamella, which may involve photographs, drawings, objects, etc., as well as works by these two artists connected to their experiences and relationships with the community and the territory.
CM: Jayme Fygura is the only deceased artist on the list. Will his presence in the exhibition be a kind of tribute? What is his role in this Panorama?
CP: Jayme Fygura's case is the only exception, as his name was present from the beginning of the project. He is someone we have followed for a long time and with whom we have worked before, and his passing took place a few months before the list was defined, that is, in the middle of our process. Therefore, we believe it would be fair to keep him, as a tribute, but above all because he is an emblematic artist for the curatorial north, fundamental to our thinking in this project, and whose trajectory and work are deeply connected with many of the subjects we want to address. And he is a unique artist, with a powerful work, and who did not receive nearly the recognition he was due during his lifetime.
CM: There are artists on the list who are little known in the art world, such as MEXA, Melissa de Oliveira, and Zimar. How did you meet them, and how long have you been following them?
CP: In fact, they are artists who already circulate a lot through certain channels, despite not being at the core of the contemporary art system, so to speak. They are artists that we have been following for some time, some are closer, with whom we have worked a few times, and others that appeared in our research and we decided to face the risks of a first collaboration. We believe that bringing artists who are not yet present in the system is a fundamental part of a Panorama, as it allows new energies to enter a greater debate, while offering the public, even those who are regulars in the arts system, the opportunity to learn about new practices.
CM: At the same time, we have a very celebrated artist, Solange Pessoa. Could you tell us a little about her inclusion in this Panorama?
CP: The breadth of this spectrum — artists who still have little visibility on the circuit, and more notorious and celebrated names — reveals the project's desire to combine different trajectories. The case of Solange Pessoa is quite specific, as she is an artist who participated in major exhibitions around the world, but never received the proper institutional reception here in Brazil, so she never participated in a Biennale or a Panorama. In this sense, for us it is a tremendous opportunity to include her, both due to the greatness of her work, as well as the deep connection with the conceptual and formal foundations of the project, and the relationships that her work establishes, in different ways, with many of the other artists.
CM: The work of artists like Jonas Van & Juno B. and Gabriel Massan has something futuristic about it. Talk a little about this aspect in Panorama.
CP: There is an important aspect to our project, which is the desire to develop a cross-section of Brazil's social imaginary in the 21st century: a country that is intensely online, immersed in a cyber culture, whose digital invention is vibrantly formulated on social networks and also in the streets, in art, fashion, music, etc. From the beginning, we knew we wanted to work with artists who create imaginaries through the use of new technologies and modes of image production. This also means that we want to look at those who are producing and pushing the boundaries of a discussion that never ends: the relationship between art and technology, especially if they also offer perspectives that broaden the parameters established by the Global North. If ideas about the future permeate the transformation between knowledge, and are often linked to a more blurred and curved temporality than we are conditioned to perceive, we can also consider that the works of artists like Zimar or Advânio Lessa, or even the Akroá Gamella Community project, also outline perspectives of possible futures.
about expanding the curatorial team
CM: How did Ariana Nuala become part of the curatorial team for this Panorama, and what will her contribution be?
CP: Ariana Nuala is someone we had already worked with individually and had been in dialogue with for a while. At the same time that she has a background linked to independent organizations, she also accumulates institutional experiences, and in recent years she has also traveled through different regions of Brazil, and we know that she closely follows many artists and movements that interest us. At some point we thought that having a third look from someone we trusted and who could add other experiences and perspectives would be important, and her name was the first one that came to us. It proved to be a happy choice, as we feel that we have reached a good balance between our visions and desires. Her contribution has been of utmost importance and, broadly speaking, will influence all aspects of the project, as she actively worked to define most of the list of artists, and will now support us in monitoring the creation processes of the works, in expographic thinking, in the preparation of texts, in the editorial organization of publications, and in other aspects of the exhibition.